https://open.spotify.com/episode/2GYDR9szCXSlZqJvgYvHfX?go=1&utm_source=embed_v3&t=0&nd=1

https://open.spotify.com/episode/59TxHB2Q1WkLq50M44yfhH?go=1&utm_source=embed_v3&t=0&nd=1